"Western" or allopathic medicine is founded on the principle of evidence based medicine. If you can prove conclusively AND reproducibly that a treatment works, it should be accepted.

A perfect example is acupuncture. Despite many people thinking of it as completely alternative and kooky, many studies have shown its effectiveness in alleving chronic pain issues. Does that mean it works for everything? no, but if it helps a patient with refractory pain, then go for it.

The reason western medical doctors (speaking as one of them) have such a hard time condoning alternative medicine is that so often it is unproven and UNREGULATED. There is no safety process in approving a new formulation of St. John’s Wort or Echinacea or even Yohimbe. And depending on the manufacturer, concentrations can be highly variable. It’s not that these "herbal supplements" may not be beneficial, but that because they are unregulated and do not dosing parameters that have been tested in large scale trials, it’s hard to justify their use.

Yes, curare, digoxin and many other drugs are naturally occurring and have many very useful applications, but can be absolutely lethal if not given in correct amounts. And the reason they are manufactured is so that dosing can be titrated. Have you ever seen a patient who received a ten-fold overdose of warfarin…not pretty.

As for many of the other methodologies you mention (massage, aromatherapy, meditation), many of them do have proven benefits and I encourage patients to seek them out as part of their treatment. But to abandon evidence based medicines and intervention in favor of JUST massage or aromatherapy…I would disagree strongly. This is why we often refer to these as complementary medicine, to be used adjunctively.

Western and "Alternative" medicine need not and should not be exclusive.

At the end of the day people want what works, not what sounds the most pleasant.

Yes, but those herbs in their crude form are not medically useful. And anyone claiming drugs in their crude form are the same as the scientifically modified form is dishonest. No one is disputing the plausibility of herbs. Approximately, half of the current drugs we use in medicine were derived from natural products; what has medicinal benefits is used in medicine, what isn’t is discarded. Just because some herbs have therapeutic benefits, does not mean they all do…..

You have to understand that herbs are crude drugs at unknown and uncontrolled concentrations. They are much less effective than drugs and some are much more dangerous. You mentioned Digoxin from foxglove, and that is a good example. It’s medicinal effects were realized, and it was standardized. However, the therapeutic window is incredibly narrow, the scientifically developed variant is safer and more predictable. Otherwise with the crude form, it sometimes worked, or sometimes it killed you.

Is digoxin an example of an herbs and alt.med? No, it’s an example of SCIENCE.

What matters isn’t the origin of the product, it’s the demonstrated evidence of efficacy. What works, becomes medicine. Everything else is alternative because it’s either never been shown to work, or in the case of acupuncture and homeopathy, shown not to work.

"If they didn’t provide some benefit, why would they have lasted thousands of years?"
Appeal to tradition/antiquity. Time doesn’t test modalities, science does. Why do you think the scientific community have discarded these "treatments" ?

Edit: "Big Pharma wants profit. Alternative meds take away from their medical sales."
That’s right, they do want profit, that’s why the scour the earth looking for stuff that works.

@ Marc: " If any of the concepts of alt. med. were to one day be proven beyond any doubt, and the results printed and covered in the most prestigious scientific journal and the author won the nobel prize for their discovery, these skeppys would still cling to their ideas."

WRONG. We would change our position. Being a skeptic means we must be willing to change our position upon presentation of *robust data*. However, we haven’t been presented with anything remotely resembling valid evidence, and great swathes of evidence disproves alt.med. Unlike the alties, we would rather be proved wrong, than live in ignorance. Your ilk, have rejected all evidence that shows your woo does not work and still cling to your beliefs.

and Rick, It’s always impressive how the alties manage to get so much wrong in so few words.

Edit: And I’ll tell you what else….I’m actually not against most things, just against nonsense and potentially harmful things. If someone wants to bathe in Lavender or take charcoal for gas, no big deal – but that is very different than some of the nut jobs who suggest that sugar pills can cure deadly conditions on here.

"All religions, arts and sciences are branches of the same tree."

"Concern for man and his fate must always form the chief interest of all technical endeavors. Never forget this in the midst of your diagrams and equations."

"The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing."

Millet: Great, thought-provoking post.
Marc: Nice input here and on other posts
Dave: I’m sure you’ll hit me for Appeal to Authority.
Weise Ente: If someone believes something to be true, it is to them, even if not to you.

And so it goes…

EDIT: A quote from Weise Ente 11 months ago on YA…"If you are asking if there can be negative placebo effect, then yes. If someone thinks a drug or something will hurt them, it probably will through the placebo effect." Uh-Oh.

And Rhianna, I’ll neither take credit for being an alty nor for being wrong in this discussion. My quotes are valid as is my opinion that all parties are sincere and neither side will agree.

What actually works or does not work is universal; it doesn’t vary from location to location.

You wrote two paragraphs about herbs. Did you think we were unaware that herbs sometimes contain useful ingredients? You should have spent some time on something we absolutely oppose.

"Do these work? Yes, for a great many people, all across the world. If they didn’t provide some benefit, why would they have lasted thousands of years?"

Oh, do they? Notice how your post falls on its face? So much time was given to herbs – the most evidenced based alternative. Now that you have no plausibility or evidence, you use fallacious reasoning – unimpressive.

Edit: Very open-minded of you, Marc. What if we say something that doesn’t fit into your "box?" That would be truly frightening.

Edit: "You must have some issues with your frontal cortex with impulse control."
I have a condition. It causes me to say what I want, when I want – hasn’t been a problem.

Edit:@Rick: Subjective truth…really?

I’ll give you props for the Vonnegut quote at the end.

"Western" medicine is the medicine of choice in many non-Western nations such as Japan and is becoming increasingly common in China.

This is because what you call Western medicine is simply science based medicine. If it works, it is medicine. If not, it is alternative "medicine."

For example, you claimed "acupuncture, acupressure, massage, aromatherapy, meditation, chanting, prayer, religious ritual, exorcism, visualization, guided sensory imaging, sensory deprivation, achieving "higher" levels of consciousness, use of crystals and healing stones, etc. Do these work? Yes"

The correct answer, the one supported by empirical evidence is no. They do not work.

Plants produce biologically active compounds. Many of these are useful. They are drugs, whether purified or still in the plant. However, many of those used in alternative "medicine" are bogus and have been shown time and time again to do nothing.

You made several other factually incorrect statements such as that tryptophan makes you sleepy. It doesn’t, that’s a myth. There is no more trytophan in turkey than any other meat. I am pointing this out to illustrate that just because people believe something doesn’t make it true.

Edit: "If someone believes something to be true, it is to them, even if not to you."

I can’t even express how wrong this statement is. If you really, really think arsenic is not a poison, do you really think that changes a damn thing?

Edit: Ah, the dishonesty I have come to expect from alties.

The placebo effect doesn’t change reality. No amount of wishful thinking alters that.